The rough-and-tumble unmasks the half measures members

Firstly I'd like to apologise for my lengthy absence. My computer was getting very buggy and slow and it badly needed an overhaul. I finally sorted out a new setup and so everything has finally cranked up to a more acceptable speed in the computer department.

I've also been very absorbed in the mine of information on YouTube in the form of documentaries and fascinating reports that would never normally be available on mainstream television. Some interesting news sources.. and I am constantly mining it for lengthy lectures on just about everything. I have to download them and listen to everything speeded up in order to get through it all. And somehow I still manage to not listen to everything.

As regards meetings,  an enduring preoccupation of mine at the moment is forewarning people I suppose that length of time sober alone can mean very little. Perhaps because I frequently encounter the attitude that I might be beyond reproach because I've been sober for a long time, I find myself constantly warning people that nobody is beyond reproach including me. And that if I suddenly started acting in a strange or unreasonable way, then that behaviour speaks volumes and is far more important than how long I have been sober.

 Actions speak louder than words.

"Be as gentle as doves, but as wise as serpents. for I send you out as sheep among wolves.." as they say..

Basically I think that being around a long time makes it  easier to look at who has fallen by the wayside over the last 20 something years. It seems  like less of a mystery looks likethe people who come unstuck over time are compromised in some way, or have sold out in some form or other. I find it interesting over  all these years watching who relapses. I hear things through the grapevine  (usually when people who have been harmed in some way discuss their problems with me) about how certain AA people have been treating other people, and sure enough sometime later the people in AA who have been acting off beam seem to relapse. Eventually.

Who knows? but it's been something that's been on my mind lately because I think over the last six months or so quite a few people have crashed and burned.  Meaning some people who had been around a long time and a short time who were acting in a harmful way towards others have relapsed. The masks have come off so to speak.

The good news is that the people whose program I respect have not relapsed. Every single person I know who consistently helps newcomers seems to stay sober. They might have other issues but at least they get to stay sober. I don't think AA was really intended to make everybody's issues disappear. Everyone has issues. Doesn't matter who you are. So that part doesn't bother me. The important thing is to stay sober and to try to skillfully handle the mental and emotional "stuff" in our heads instead of just being dragged around by it heedlessly. That's good enough for me. But like an  Old-timer used to say "I just do my lousy best" and I think that's very good advice. Especially for those perfectionists out there.

It is my belief that the current economic pressures and general upheaval will have the effect of shaking from the tree the more  "buffet-style" AA members. There are plenty of things to  drive yourself mad about in the news so it will be interesting if nothing else.

Basically I think that now is a good time to keep your side of the street clean, keep your head down and maintain your service by helping others in some form or other. It's a very useful time to cultivate this selfless quality. And I don't mean be a martyr.

Despite all the fear mongering and upheaval going on I feel very positive and a little bit excited. I'm extremely glad at times like this that I had the opportunity to learn to live along spiritual lines.

Anyway sorry this post is too long again as usual. I'm going to try and be a little bit more brief because I suspect it is terribly boring reading  long posts. Even with speed reading software.

Anyway I really hope everyone out there as well and maintaining a insightful and unfazed mindset in these somewhat challenging economic circumstances. Now that I have a spring cleaned kit I have no excuse not to be able to post more regularly. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

“Those who do not recover” p58, “fit spiritual condition” p85 and “spiritual status” p101

Please bear with me while I roll out a few quotes before I get to the jist of this post ☺

“Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.” (p58, AA Big Book)

“If we are not sorry, and our conduct continues to harm others, we are quite sure to drink. We are not theorizing.” (p70, AA Big Book)

“And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone-even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality—safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.” (p85, AA Big Book)

We meet these conditions every day. An alcoholic who cannot meet them, still has an alcoholic mind; there is something the matter with his spiritual status. (p101, AA Big Book)

if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others, he could not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead. (p15, AA Big Book)
Our very lives, as ex-problem drinkers, depend upon our constant thought of others and how we may help meet their needs. (p20, AA Big Book)
Helping others is the foundation stone of your recovery. (p97, AA Big Book)

Whew! Sorry for all those quotes, but I need them all to make this point unfortunately.. Thanks for bearing with me ☺ Here we go..

Please (!!!!!!) do not confuse ‘not drinking’, or being ‘dry’, with (what the big book calls) being ‘recovered’ (p xxiii, xv, xvii, 133, 132, 113, 90) or being in ‘fit spiritual condition’. (p85, AA Big Book)

Instead of asking yourself, “How long has that person been sober?”, ask yourself “What might that person’s spiritual status be?” or “Does that person look like they might be in fit spiritual condition” or “Does that person look, speak, or act, or describe their perceptions of life, like a person who has 'recovered'?”

All I know is that there are many very mentally unwell people in AA, and in my opinion it is foolish to equate length of sobriety with competence. If people are uptight, disparaging, grumpy, lifeless, dour, bitchy, intolerant, complaining, somber, humourless, irritable, restless control freaks, then I am not particularly impressed by what they have, no matter how long they are around.
It’s not really how long sober you are that matters, what matters is whether it looks as though you have ‘recovered’. I say ‘looks’ because unless you are a mind reader, you are required to refer to the experience of other people in AA in order to make use of the program, and in order to do that, you are required to identify people in AA who are examples of what the programme can achieve when used to good effect. Because you and I are incapable of reading minds we have to make estimates as to who is making good use of the programme, in order to obtain the help we need when seeking reliable advice and feedback about how to get well and stay well.

This is in regards to seeking reliable guidance and direction. This is not the same as learning from others. I can learn something from !!!! everybody, even if all I learn from them is patience because they are exasperating, or gratitude, because they are about to die of liver failure due to repeated relapses, or are serving a murder sentence for losing control in a blackout.

No. What I’m talking about here is seeking reliable direction and feedback about how to live well by applying the programme of recovery. For me I will obtain that from only the people who have ‘got what I want’. And in order to figure out who ??? those people are, I pay attention to their capacity to remain in ‘fit spiritual condition’ as described in the big book on page 85.

As the first 9 steps represent the recovery and steps 10, 11 and 12 represent the maintenance of recovery, this is where I have interpreted the point of recovery to be. (I am only passing on what old timers passed on to me regarding their interpretation of recovery btw). Also make note, I refer to what I am describing as an interpretation. Some people draw the conclusion that anyone who makes use of certain definitions must automatically have fixed views, (much like the fixed view that AA’s who rely on certain definitions are people who have fixed views. ☺), but that’s neither here nor there, I just mention that as this is a view I have observed many times in AA.

What the big book refers to as ‘recovered’ has a specific ‘look’ in the basic text. A description of how someone can look after completing the first nine steps is vividly illustrated in the chapter a promise to you on page 85 next to the explicit reference to being in fit spiritual condition.
Instead of getting hung up on the terms, as some people do, why not use this benchmark of ‘wellness’ in the basic text as a way of identifying those in the programme who are WELL (recovered, whatever you choose to call it) as opposed to DRY. Disregard the length of time sober. There are many dishonest people in AA and always have been, so when attempting to identify who might be in fit spiritual condition, for the purposes of seeking needed advice, use your common sense and do NOT assume that because someone is DRY that they are somehow ??? not at grave risk of drinking, killing themselves, killing other people, committing sex offences, or going insane. All these things ARE possible for those that ‘do not recover’ from the crippling illness of alcoholism. There are only TWO ways this disease can end up if untreated, insanity or death.
“The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.” (p30, AA Big Book)
Untreated alcoholism is not a pretty sight. In my opinion anyway.

Plus we occasionally have members who have very !!!! serious and dangerous mental illnesses, have had lobotomies, and all sorts. I have met just about every kind in AA meetings :) Yes including one who has had a lobotomy.. I have been lucky enough to witness first hand some very !!! mentally unwell people get well and lead positive and fulfilling lives, IF they completely give themselves to this simple program, so i know that the following quote is not wishful thinking.
There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.” (p58, AA Big Book)

Btw, People who have long periods of sobriety AND at the same time manage to stay in fairly fit spiritual condition DO manage to acquire skills and abilities over time which cannot be acquired in a short span of time, but because people are so different, and rates of improvement vary so wildly, again this cannot be relied upon as a hard and fast guide. So ultimately common sense must prevail when trying to figure these things out.

So yeah, just thought I would mention that, for what its worth as it was on my mind lately. If any of that makes sense to you, great, if not, that’s fine too as it is a very long time since I deluded myself into thinking all members of AA might agree with me all the time. They don’t. ☺ And I believe wholeheartedly that this is as normal in AA, as it is in every other walk of life. There is no need for me to make it into a problem. Choice of terminology is not an issue for me as I look for similarities not differences, which means that I identify with pretty much everybody, which might sound confusing, but in practice is anything but.
Whatever. I’m just digressing now. Too long as usual. ☺ I have lots of !! difficult things to do so I’d better get on with them ☺
Have a fabulous Thursday, and I hope life is treating you well.

Big Book Search Engine

Quality not Quantity: TY show called Faking it: FURTHER proof that length of Sobriety ALONE counts for VERY little

"Quality not Quantity" is the slogan that tells us that the length of time sober ALONE tells us VERY LITTLE about a person. Nor is it an indication of skill or expertise in regards to the degree of wellbeing achieved. Not everyone uses the time in AA wisely! Some use the time to better effect than others.

Newcomers always seem to think I am pulling their leg when I say that. But I mean it with utmost sincerity. I never, repeat NEVER, assume that someone is in more impressive 'fit spiritual condition', simply because they have been sober longer than another person. There's just MORE to it than that I'm afraid.

Anyway, it just crossed my mind when I happened upon this TV programme called Faking it by Channel 4., that it illustrates this wisdom PERFECTLY. So I am drawing your attention to it.

Here's some blurb from the website for the show:
"Faking It is a transformational battle against the odds. Our faker is plucked from their natural habitat and given four weeks to master a skill well enough to fool a group of EXPERT judges."

OFTEN, the Panel of EXPERTS, conclude that the FAKE does a BETTER in 28 DAYS than others who have been doing the SAME thing for YEARS. DECADES in fact.
So what does that tell you?

See? Quality NOT Quantity.

Here. is a link to the Channel Four website for the show
And here. is a link to an episode of the show on google videos, about a posh history of art guy who becomes a grafitti artist in 28 days!!!!
How cool is that??

Quality not Quantity: Old timer (? As far as I know.?.) shagging a 14 yr old girl. Allegedly.

Disillusionment: Sexual misconduct: ? AA ? Old timer (? 60 yrs old) having sexual relations with 14 year old, over a year or so . Allegedly.

When I talk about 'disappointing' or 'disillusionment'. it sounds rather mild mannered, doesn't it? Well the REALITY of 'disappointing' and 'disillusionment' is actually rather RAW and depressing!! To say the least!!!! Here's an example for you so you can get my drift.
Here's an example of something disillusioning and disappointing..

Its a story in the paper I read the other day.
I read about a guy I knew from AA AGES ago (18 years ago or something) who as far as I know stayed sober but I don't really know, as don't bump into him very often and even when I did see him regularly, I never made an effort to get to know him or talk to him.

Basically there are VERY FEW guys in AA that I speak to or get to know. Partly because there are SO MANY I wouldn't have the time even if I DID want to, and also because a lot of them are lonely and MISINTERPRET friendliness as sexual interest. Basically its just MUCH easier if I stick with the women..

Well anyway, he ALLLEGEDLY had sex with a 14 year old. Blah blah blah. Yeah also cleared of looking at kiddie porn for 'research purposes'. Yeah right.
Whatever. I don't think his name or the details are important. The only reason I mention this is because I saw it in the paper, and just beforehand was ? Moved to post about 'beware of aa old-timers full of s**t' yesterday. So you could say there was a bit of a theme going on there!!

So do you see !! WHY you should never just assume that just because someone has been sober for a long time that they must somehow be ? Less fallible, or less likely to be full of CRAP than anyone else????

See????? QUALITY NOT QUANTITY!!!!!!!
I think this case history makes that !! abundantly clear.

Anyway, before you all start frothing at the mouth and despairing as to the general plight of the human condition nowadays, FIRSTLY
I've seen a TON of sexual misconduct by old timers since I've been in AA, so this is NOTHING NEW to me. Its called 13th stepping and it happens ALL THE TIME. AA has its fair share of (what I call) 'sexual predators' who look out for very new bewildered, and very impressionable new girls to get off with, after spouting a few aa clichés and what have you.
Its EASY. Like shooting fish in a barrel. So it is an ongoing problem. Rather than whinge about it, I try to be part of the solution and 'brief' new women of this inherent risk AS SOON AS THEY COME TO MEETINGS. Whatever. That all I can do really. I can't 'change' the men's behavior, so I try to protect the women instead.

By the way I DO NOT HATE GUYS. Just in case you are thinking that. I have been very lucky in getting to know some really nice people in aa, but I have to admit, that by and large I am MUCH more 'at home' with people who are NOT alcoholics. Generally. That's a very personal thing, but its just how I feel. I feel more comfortable with non alcoholics. I RELATE more to alcoholics, but I would rather be with NON alcoholics.
Right I'm off.. Again. !

Supposed 'Authorities' in AA: Don't be INTIMIDATED by them. Make your OWN mind up.

And yes. That includes me. (Just in case you have the MISFORTUNE to either put me on a ? 'pedestal', or conclude that I am any less FALLIBLE than any other human being)

Why?
Tradition 2:
2. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority — a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; THEY DO NOT GOVERN.

Tradition 12:
"ever reminding us to place principles BEFORE personalities."

Yes on the one hand, if people are VERY new, or I have GRAVE, IMMEDIATE concerns about them, I MAY choose to suggest something VERY clearly. But OUTSIDE of that, (after step 9 really) I would MUCH PREFER people to think for themselves.

That's one (of the many) reasons why I prefer not to sponsor formally after step 9. I want people to START THINKING FOR THEMSELVES.
Ok , if they REALLY want to ask me about something in particular, fair enough. But what I DON"T want them to do, is to end up thinking that they are SOMEHOW INCAPABLE OF FIGURING THINGS OUT FOR THEMSELVES.

Apart from the fact that I would have NO FREE TIME WHATSOVER if I chose NOT to do that. I strongly believe that it is in THEIR best interests to learn to start to trust their OWN judgment.
I just don't think its right if you end up thinking that you are ALWAYS wrong, or that you cant make a decision about something without asking a dozen people.
Basically its all about balance.
Yeah, some cant make a decision for love nor money and end up asking a TON of people. And then others think they know everything!!! And are a bit peculiar in my opinion!
Yeah, and the ones that are angry, depressed, or fearful, well they cant see the wood for the trees so they have a lop sided view which isn't very good when trying to make decisions. Oh well.

I mean the 'normal' ones. (after step 9 really) They need to be FAR more confident of their perceptions and their ability to figure things out. Yes, of course they will make STUPID mistakes, but that's going to happen anyway. Life involves taking risks. You cant avoid that. And with risk comes the possibility of embarrassing failure.
Personally I LOVE asking cool people questions about how to go about my life. (Any excuse to talk to them really) But there are not many people that fall into that category I'm afraid to say.

What I was TRYING to say before I got HOPELESSLY sidetracked, is
DO NOT BE INTIMIDATED BY PEOPLE IN AA (or any other 12 step programme) WHO PROFESS TO BE AN 'AUTHORITY' ON ??? ANY ASPECT OF RECOVERY.
I may be infuriatingly clear in the manner in which I choose to express myself, but I do NOT, I repeat.. NOT
THINK I HAVE GOT IT ALL FIGURED OUT.
And in fact I go to a LOT of trouble to try VERY HARD to communicate that to people. In fact it ANNOYS me when anybody makes that assumption about me, or any other member of AA. I find admiring comments quite ikky too..
So there you go.
So, Don't EVER let ANYBODY talk DOWN to you. EVER. (Talking down to you is SUPERIORITY, not humility.)
Or I will send the boys round!! Heheh..
See? I can be intimidating TOO when I try!!. Were you scared???
Oh well. Never mind. Maybe next time...

PS: Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against expertise. I think when I say 'authority' here I mean something that appears to be 'superior, or 'better than', in a way that INHIBITS one from including ones own version of events. Sort of like when you dismiss your own concerns because you think 'they know better'. That's what I mean. What Im trying to describe here is arrogance and superiority, not expertise.
For instance I really like Bill gates, and he is very much an expert, but I do not perceive him as presenting himself as 'the final word' on matters regarding computers. He does not strike me as 'superior'. Or an 'unquestioned authority'.
Anyway I hope that makes it a little clearer..

What I consider to be 'Bad' Sponsors

To be honest I get a bit fed up listening to stories of people who have sponsors who:

Change plans at the last minute. Or don't show up.
Are never available.
Say they are going to do stuff and then don't do it. Ie unreliable and flaky.
Cannot be got hold of on the phone.
End up talking about THEIR OWN STUFF instead of the Sponsees stuff.
Are totally inflexible.
Get pissed off with Sponsees when the approach they are using is partly responsible for causing friction. Ie blame the Sponsee instead of reappraising the method they are using. Hey don't get me wrong, all Sponsees can drive you NUTS, but by and large it is WRONG to always assume that the fault lies with the Sponsee. That's all. Sometimes a different approach is needed. A tougher approach, or a softer approach. It all depends. Again this is at the discretion of the sponsor. If you simply do not have time for constructing another approach, then you have no choice but to suggest they find a different sponsor.

I have a list a mile long !!! of (what I consider to be) bad sponsorship, but I have focused here mainly on:
Flakiness
Unmanageability
Basic inability to get to grips with the Sponsee.

There are very common complaints. But there are many others!

Quality not Quantity

There are PLENTY of nutcases in AA as you probably know by now, and there's no reason why sponsor might not be a bit nutty too!! You can't put them on pedestals! Just because they've got some time DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. You'd be surprised how disappointing the human condition is!
Either find someone with more structure in the way they sponsor people, then hopefully they will have more free time. Either that or get someone who has no job, no hobbies, no friends so plenty of free time!!

I ALWAYS say "QUALITY NOT QUANTITY"
Meaning the QUALITY of their 'wellbeing' and their ability to cope with life, is FAR more important than HOW LONG THEY HAVE BEEN SOBER. Mind you the quality of wellbeing has a different value over time. Dizzy idealism may 'look' positive in the early years, but is replaced with a more mature 'benign wellbeing' in later recovery. So yes, positivity 'looks' different over time. But that's a different post really.