About Me

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I have recovered from the disease of Alcoholism. I believe there is only one person really,.. everybody. And that peace of mind is everything. -So treat your neighbor as you would treat yourself, because your neighbor IS yourself. I think most of recovery is what I would call common sense, but that learning to be ordinary is a true gift very few people acquire. My ambition is to accept everything unflinchingly, with compassion, and therefore be intrinsically comfortable in my own skin, no matter what. I am comfortable being uncomfortable and am willing to go to any lengths to improve my life. I believe the Big Book was divinely inspired, and is extraordinarily powerful. Unfortunately AA's best kept secret a lot of the time. (In my opinion). I just try to do what works, no matter what it is.

Wednesday, July 18, 2007

Quality not Quantity: Old timer (? As far as I know.?.) shagging a 14 yr old girl. Allegedly.

Disillusionment: Sexual misconduct: ? AA ? Old timer (? 60 yrs old) having sexual relations with 14 year old, over a year or so . Allegedly.

When I talk about 'disappointing' or 'disillusionment'. it sounds rather mild mannered, doesn't it? Well the REALITY of 'disappointing' and 'disillusionment' is actually rather RAW and depressing!! To say the least!!!! Here's an example for you so you can get my drift.
Here's an example of something disillusioning and disappointing..

Its a story in the paper I read the other day.
I read about a guy I knew from AA AGES ago (18 years ago or something) who as far as I know stayed sober but I don't really know, as don't bump into him very often and even when I did see him regularly, I never made an effort to get to know him or talk to him.

Basically there are VERY FEW guys in AA that I speak to or get to know. Partly because there are SO MANY I wouldn't have the time even if I DID want to, and also because a lot of them are lonely and MISINTERPRET friendliness as sexual interest. Basically its just MUCH easier if I stick with the women..

Well anyway, he ALLLEGEDLY had sex with a 14 year old. Blah blah blah. Yeah also cleared of looking at kiddie porn for 'research purposes'. Yeah right.
Whatever. I don't think his name or the details are important. The only reason I mention this is because I saw it in the paper, and just beforehand was ? Moved to post about 'beware of aa old-timers full of s**t' yesterday. So you could say there was a bit of a theme going on there!!

So do you see !! WHY you should never just assume that just because someone has been sober for a long time that they must somehow be ? Less fallible, or less likely to be full of CRAP than anyone else????

I think this case history makes that !! abundantly clear.

Anyway, before you all start frothing at the mouth and despairing as to the general plight of the human condition nowadays, FIRSTLY
I've seen a TON of sexual misconduct by old timers since I've been in AA, so this is NOTHING NEW to me. Its called 13th stepping and it happens ALL THE TIME. AA has its fair share of (what I call) 'sexual predators' who look out for very new bewildered, and very impressionable new girls to get off with, after spouting a few aa clich├ęs and what have you.
Its EASY. Like shooting fish in a barrel. So it is an ongoing problem. Rather than whinge about it, I try to be part of the solution and 'brief' new women of this inherent risk AS SOON AS THEY COME TO MEETINGS. Whatever. That all I can do really. I can't 'change' the men's behavior, so I try to protect the women instead.

By the way I DO NOT HATE GUYS. Just in case you are thinking that. I have been very lucky in getting to know some really nice people in aa, but I have to admit, that by and large I am MUCH more 'at home' with people who are NOT alcoholics. Generally. That's a very personal thing, but its just how I feel. I feel more comfortable with non alcoholics. I RELATE more to alcoholics, but I would rather be with NON alcoholics.
Right I'm off.. Again. !


Syd said...

I've heard about 13th stepping. One of my friends calls it "As the girls twirl". I see people in Al-Anon and AA as very vulnerable at first. I was so needy that anyone could have taken me by the hand and I would have gone with them.

doctor a said...

I attended a large (100-150) men's AA group for a number of years. In my estimation, probably 2/3 of them easily qualified as sex addicts both in their behavior and their attitude. Fortunately, that problem began to be addressed in the meetings as men became willing to talk about why they had started going to SA or SAA.

This isn't new---Bill W probably qualified as a sex addict. Glad you're writing about it.

Kathy Lynne said...

The man who inspried me the other day with his joy told the story of his first AA meeting. He went just for the hope of getting laid. Of course, he had urine soaked clothes on and had just slept in a car but he thought he was the balls.

I appreciate the 13th step warnings. Luckily, it seems that most of the "oldtimers" in the meetings I have attended both male and female have stressed that their sobriety has only lasted one day, that day. I appreciate that too.

Meg Moran said...

when someone with time, stability and all of the "supposed" mental health that comes with it...hooks up with a vulnerable newcomer that is about CONTROL not sex.....(kinda like pedophiles and rapists) hmmm makes you think

An Irish Friend of Bill said...

yeah I agree meg. I say 'sexual relations' just so people know there was some sex going on, but yeah, that kind of lop sided arrangement inevitably includes control and manipulation.
I got a lot of hassle from guys when I was new, and I hear many horror stories from new women about treatment from other aa men, so I always knew about this thing from the off. But I still do find it dissapointing. I only found this out by an article in the paper. It involves a guy in aa, but as far as I know this is about an incident that occured over a decade ago. it didnt happen in an aa meeting as such, but its only since the girl has grown up a bit that she is persuing a claim against him. I must admit, I am always a bit dissapointed when I see stuff like this. I tend to think people are ok. especially if they are well spoken and mannered. Oh well. Yeah nothing shocks me these days! ..Heard it all before (and worse) unfortunately!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this post. It's been on my mind a lot lately. I heard a similar (maybe the same story) about a group in the States. It's one of my big pet peeves. We have a few pervy old timers in our groups as well. Often they'll latch on to a new woman and just not let them go. This is so unhelpful to helping people get well. I spoke to my sponsor about it and he said that all I can do is find a woman to go over and rescue the newcomer. I just think its a shame that we have to do that. I stick with the men in AA almost exclusively cause that's the way I was told that it works.

johno said...

Its disappointing for aboout 30 seconds, then its just, like this happens everywhere. A recovering alcoholic they said on the news, do they report that bit to excuse his actions or explain it? I dunno, no explanation needed, he's just one sick PUPPY, "sobriety is not enough We think". he is just One of many sick puppies. Its Good that people know now. Its no longer a secret.

An Irish Friend of Bill said...

hi free man! no this is a UK story. just happens to be somone I know from a long time ago that is involved. I dont see the point of mentioning the name as its one of those things you could find out about withot much difficulty if you wanted to. I suppose its 'principles not personalities' as well.
My home group the men stuck with the men, the women stuck with the women, and that made a HUGE contribution to dissolving this behaviour in its tracks. Yeah there were a few 'persistent' guys, but the ones that were 'on the pull' were really put off going to that meeting, or actin gout in that way, because it was an ? accepted code of the group. The pervy ones MUCH prefer a more 'laissez faire' structured group because there is FAR more opportunity to make a move on people. I cant remember wether they used to mention the suggestion that men stick with men etc at the start of the meeting, but they might have done. My memory is not that goood! right im off...see ya!

Anonymous said...

I have 15 years sober and I am a woman. I just had sex with a newcomer man...I couldn't help it. So it isn't just men, that's for sure.